Wednesday
Jan122011
I Call Someone A Bad Mother For the First Time EVER.
Wednesday, January 12, 2011 at 8:46PM
Let me jump on a bandwagon of the flagrant attempt to get people to buy copies of Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother or the discussions surrounding "Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior." I certainly bear the distinct qualification to pontificate on this matter being not only a mother of Asian origin herself, but a child who was, in fact, raised by an Asian mother.
Amy Chua lists a bunch of little items in her WSJ article that she prohibits her children from doing.
I lived with many of those prohibitions.
I definitely never had a "play date", I was not allowed to sleep over at friends' houses (with the exception of a handful of times), and though I was steadfast in my insistence to participate, I was highly discouraged from participating in school plays. In fact, the first time I did participate in a school play, it was not known to my parents and wholly attributed to the fact that I could forge my mother's signature.
My brother and I used to participate in a lot of academic competitions, though. That was completely okay.
Social studies, foreign language, theater, science fairs, etc. I think I was in the seventh grade when all that started. In ninth grade, I got second place in the science fair. I remember my parents reaction vividly.
It was not elation.
They asked me who got first. They told me not to worry, and that I would do better next time. I never forgot that. From that moment on, no matter what, if I competed in something, I was getting first. I would bring home blue.
I remember getting a "red" (second place) in some competition during my senior year of high school. I came home hoping that my parents would be too busy to ask me about the competition. Luckily, they were. I unpacked my bag and stuffed that red ribbon down at the bottom of the garbage can. It meant nothing to me because I knew it would mean nothing to them.
I took that lesson with me into adulthood, too. For a long time, I believed that if you weren't the best at something, you simply didn't matter. For some people, that works. That gets them into Harvard, I guess. For other people, people like me, that makes you feel like everything is pointless. I gave up on doing a lot of stuff in my twenties because I didn't think I could be the best at it.
I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad for me here. I am a well adjusted, fairly happy adult who does all sorts of stuff that I'm just mediocre at, now. Like, you know, writing this blog.
I'm also not saying that my parents were awful. I love them. I know they were doing their best. Everything is fine.
But, I will say this, I don't think this is an ideal way to parent.
I don't think, in fact, that today it is even an acceptable way to parent.
In my parents' defense, I think they didn't know any better.
I really believe that.
They grew up in a country where this was the most acceptable, mostly widely practiced and largely unquestioned style of parenting because it was the only style. Love and honor are intricately bound... there is relatively no distinguishing between them. You are honored to be the child of your parents, and you honor them by, well, bringing in more honor. Love? Well, duh. Of course, we all love each other. Of course, we do. Don't we... whye arrre you beeing so eemotional, bete*?
But Amy Chua did not grow up where my parents grew up.
In fact, given that Amy Chua grew up here in the United States, I'm kind of offended for my Asian parents that she has tried to categorize herself with them. I don't know if this will make sense, but I feel as though Amy Chua has taken something that my parents did out of pure innocence and made it into something horrible. Kind of like what Coca Cola did with "New Coke" back in the 80s.
Anyway, yes, in this instance, I am saying that the mother described in Amy Chua's article is not being the best mother she can be. I don't think I've ever said that before. I make it a point not to say bad things about the parenting of others because I have this pesky habit of being a decent person and all.
Really, I know it's awful. It feels awful to say it, but hear me out.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I take issue with this depiction of "Chinese" mothers (Chua does actually cite that Indian mothers are similar) because I beleive her focus distracts from the real issues and causes of alienation that occur between Asian immigrants and their American children.
The disconnect is not a result of the prohibitive ways that children are raised in this environment.
While I don't agree with making a kid practice violin for two hours, I don't think that is "bad" parenting. I think it's fine to value ambition, achievement and success. I don't put the same premium on those values, but, lucky for my kids and their grandchildren's trust funds, my husband does.
I think it's the issue of love that bothers me here.
Love is the problem here. How it is being used, what she thinks it means and what she is doing with it.
It is my belief that all that children want from their parents is love. Not even "acceptance." I think they just want to be loved. And I think the kind of parent that Amy Chua has described uses this intense and singular desire for love as a tool to motivate, shame or punish a child. I am more than uneasy with that, I find it horrifying.
I cannot begin to imagine how calling your child garbage is (a) something to brag about or (b) even remotely acceptable as a form of motivation or discipline.
I just don't think dangling love in front of your child in order to make them jump through metaphorical hoops of your own values and ambition is a Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, or a whatever Asian country whose kids are the best at math right now way.
I simply think that it's the wrong way.
I'm a disciplinarian with my children. Probably more so than my non-Asian origin peers, maybe even more than my Asian American peers. I very strictly limit television, emphasize academics (yes, even with a 5 and 1 year old), and plan on "making" them take music lessons until they are just on the verge of hating me. I also plan on stressing the importance of getting the absolute best grades they can attain.
But I also plan on communicating with them.
On listening to them... finding out what they like, who they are... who they want to be.
On letting them know that I love them... yes, no matter what. No.matter.WHAT.
Because, in the end, what they achieve will not belong to me. It will belong to them.
I don't think the last few lines are special, "above and beyond," or a reflection of parenting choices.
I think they're just part of the "being a good mommy" code.
*bete is a term of endearment which translates to "child"
Amy Chua lists a bunch of little items in her WSJ article that she prohibits her children from doing.
I lived with many of those prohibitions.
I definitely never had a "play date", I was not allowed to sleep over at friends' houses (with the exception of a handful of times), and though I was steadfast in my insistence to participate, I was highly discouraged from participating in school plays. In fact, the first time I did participate in a school play, it was not known to my parents and wholly attributed to the fact that I could forge my mother's signature.
My brother and I used to participate in a lot of academic competitions, though. That was completely okay.
Social studies, foreign language, theater, science fairs, etc. I think I was in the seventh grade when all that started. In ninth grade, I got second place in the science fair. I remember my parents reaction vividly.
It was not elation.
They asked me who got first. They told me not to worry, and that I would do better next time. I never forgot that. From that moment on, no matter what, if I competed in something, I was getting first. I would bring home blue.
I remember getting a "red" (second place) in some competition during my senior year of high school. I came home hoping that my parents would be too busy to ask me about the competition. Luckily, they were. I unpacked my bag and stuffed that red ribbon down at the bottom of the garbage can. It meant nothing to me because I knew it would mean nothing to them.
I took that lesson with me into adulthood, too. For a long time, I believed that if you weren't the best at something, you simply didn't matter. For some people, that works. That gets them into Harvard, I guess. For other people, people like me, that makes you feel like everything is pointless. I gave up on doing a lot of stuff in my twenties because I didn't think I could be the best at it.
I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad for me here. I am a well adjusted, fairly happy adult who does all sorts of stuff that I'm just mediocre at, now. Like, you know, writing this blog.
I'm also not saying that my parents were awful. I love them. I know they were doing their best. Everything is fine.
But, I will say this, I don't think this is an ideal way to parent.
I don't think, in fact, that today it is even an acceptable way to parent.
In my parents' defense, I think they didn't know any better.
I really believe that.
They grew up in a country where this was the most acceptable, mostly widely practiced and largely unquestioned style of parenting because it was the only style. Love and honor are intricately bound... there is relatively no distinguishing between them. You are honored to be the child of your parents, and you honor them by, well, bringing in more honor. Love? Well, duh. Of course, we all love each other. Of course, we do. Don't we... whye arrre you beeing so eemotional, bete*?
But Amy Chua did not grow up where my parents grew up.
In fact, given that Amy Chua grew up here in the United States, I'm kind of offended for my Asian parents that she has tried to categorize herself with them. I don't know if this will make sense, but I feel as though Amy Chua has taken something that my parents did out of pure innocence and made it into something horrible. Kind of like what Coca Cola did with "New Coke" back in the 80s.
Anyway, yes, in this instance, I am saying that the mother described in Amy Chua's article is not being the best mother she can be. I don't think I've ever said that before. I make it a point not to say bad things about the parenting of others because I have this pesky habit of being a decent person and all.
Really, I know it's awful. It feels awful to say it, but hear me out.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I take issue with this depiction of "Chinese" mothers (Chua does actually cite that Indian mothers are similar) because I beleive her focus distracts from the real issues and causes of alienation that occur between Asian immigrants and their American children.
The disconnect is not a result of the prohibitive ways that children are raised in this environment.
While I don't agree with making a kid practice violin for two hours, I don't think that is "bad" parenting. I think it's fine to value ambition, achievement and success. I don't put the same premium on those values, but, lucky for my kids and their grandchildren's trust funds, my husband does.
I think it's the issue of love that bothers me here.
Love is the problem here. How it is being used, what she thinks it means and what she is doing with it.
It is my belief that all that children want from their parents is love. Not even "acceptance." I think they just want to be loved. And I think the kind of parent that Amy Chua has described uses this intense and singular desire for love as a tool to motivate, shame or punish a child. I am more than uneasy with that, I find it horrifying.
I cannot begin to imagine how calling your child garbage is (a) something to brag about or (b) even remotely acceptable as a form of motivation or discipline.
I just don't think dangling love in front of your child in order to make them jump through metaphorical hoops of your own values and ambition is a Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, or a whatever Asian country whose kids are the best at math right now way.
I simply think that it's the wrong way.
I'm a disciplinarian with my children. Probably more so than my non-Asian origin peers, maybe even more than my Asian American peers. I very strictly limit television, emphasize academics (yes, even with a 5 and 1 year old), and plan on "making" them take music lessons until they are just on the verge of hating me. I also plan on stressing the importance of getting the absolute best grades they can attain.
But I also plan on communicating with them.
On listening to them... finding out what they like, who they are... who they want to be.
On letting them know that I love them... yes, no matter what. No.matter.WHAT.
Because, in the end, what they achieve will not belong to me. It will belong to them.
I don't think the last few lines are special, "above and beyond," or a reflection of parenting choices.
I think they're just part of the "being a good mommy" code.
*bete is a term of endearment which translates to "child"
Reader Comments (61)
I don't think anything you've listed here would be considered a radical parenting belief here in the United States.
It's too bad that there was a time when you didn't feel like 'red' was good enough. You're an excellent mother and you ahold be proud. My mom read my post on this topic and emailed me to say that I didn't really go to that many sleepovers and when I did, it was to Greek homes. And that they did push us harder than I made it sound in my post. Regardless. I'll never NOT support my kids. I'll encourage them, but never force them. I'll continue teaching them daily. To me, they're already perfect,
*should* be proud.
Well said! And also, how much work is that? For the mom, I mean. If I have to spend two hours making my kid play the violin, how am I going to have time for Facebook? ; }
Great response, Faiqa. I wrote a sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek post today about how my husband spoils our kids (completely silly of me, but I think that was lost on some folks. My humor is crass and gets me in trouble.)
My husband's spoiling of our kids has floored me because I know that his growing up was similar in many respects to yours (His mother would never, ever tell him to his face that he did a great job, but then he would overhear her bragging to others about his accomplishments!)
Actually, on second thought, maybe his leniency with our children is explained, after all.
I think the most important lesson a parent can pass on to a child is the idea of unconditional love, not that they're a fat pig who is garbage.
Excellent post.
Pageant moms are the American version of the Chinese mother.
Faiqa, we have extremely similar parenting styles.
I'm currently reading, "The Bonesetter's Daughter" (a recommendation from you), so this article coming out right now is kinda funny.
I can be pretty strict myself with school, so mostly I took it as a reminder to ease off now and then. My kid already pushes herself hard enough.
But I tell my daughter all the time, I will love her no matter what. It's really the most important lesson they'll ever have.
Ah, bete, this is good. This is really good. I think it must so hard to be like the mothers this portrays. How do you withold love from your children, as a motivator or no? How do you hold yourself back? Ever?
@Sybil Law, I'm reading it too and thought the exact same thing!
I think you hit the nail on the head here. Challenging your kids to be their best is a good thing. Making sure they know you love them even when they don't is the most important thing.
I read this and remembered a Jibran poem
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.
Faiqa, thank you SO much for giving me the information that I need to know that I can NEVER read the materials you have listed, here. Enough stuff in the world really pisses me off, and I really just don't need to go out of my way to add to that list. I'm all about freedom to do whatever ridiculous crap we all want to do, but I hate it whenever I hear or see someone do something to, around or for a child that belittles them. They are little sponges, and anyone who has ever truly watched their children know that they pick up EVERYTHING, and they are not half as stupid as some people think they are. When I requested that Joseph be tested for Program Challenge, I'm sure that there were some people who wondered why I was pushing him so much. I read shocked comments about five year olds having homework, etc. My reasons had nothing to do with my desire for him to be #1 smart kid, and everything to do with how hard he pushes himself. I could see how frustrated he'd get when something didn't come easily for him, and that worried me. No five year old related to me is allowed to be that tightly wound! I wanted him in an environment where he wouldn't be the "smartest" kid his age. We wanted him to learn to struggle and be ok. We want him to learn to strive for the joy of trying something new, even if he can't master it or even falls flat on his face. Hockey? For my five and a half year old who is the same size as his almost four year old brother? Ok. Karate? How about Kung Fu, instead. Whatever. Let's try it. Everything is an adventure, and that's where the joy is, not always in the results. The key, though, is that he will have his Daddy and I at home telling him how OK that is. One of the greatest things I learned when working under one of my first researchers was that, even if you prove your hypothesis wrong, you've learned something new. I guess I've inherited the natural inclination for this from my mom. She just ran a 20 mile or so marathon at Disney World. The longest she's ever run before this was six miles. Her attitude was that, as long as she crossed the finish line on her own before the time was up, she didn't care what "place" she was. Of course, she was still thrilled to get the Mickey medal, especially as the race almost killed her! WE are the true tiger moms. We protect our children even from our own vanity.
When I heard how this Mom required hours of homework and piano practice and no sleepovers, I said "Gee Mom, that's how you and dad raised us. It was called the 1960's"
Then I found out the author gave back a card her daughter made her and said "I reject this" because it wasn't good enough.
Rejecting a child's loving gesture is being a "bad mom" in my book. Expecting your child to do their very best, and teaching them that with love, is being a good Mom.
Thanks for your providing your insight. The fact that you couldn't rejoice at getting a red ribbon makes me sad for that you.
The thing that was most disturbing to me about the article I read wasn't the strictness or the drive, but things like calling her kids garbage. I don't see that as motivation and I don't see my child's spirit as something that needs to be broken, I prefer firm guidance.
"I want you to go in that bag, and find my wallet. It's the one that says Bad Mother..."
Well, you know the rest.
It was startling that Chua would think a list of prohibitions and the use of love as a whipping stick are what separates one from inferior parenting. While I could relate to some of the prohibitions on her list (sleepovers, TV, & school plays were not big in my household), her communication style had nothing else in common with that of my parents, who are of Asian (Indian) heritage.
I just found her article to be a profoundly bizarre justification for child abuse.
I feel terrible for her daughters.
Brilliant post.
[...] there’s been a bit of a brouhaha all over the internet lately about this crazy lady by the name of Amy Chua. She is [...]
[...] there’s been a bit of a brouhaha all over the internet lately about this crazy lady by the name of Amy Chua. She is [...]
Wow... I understand Amy Chua's form of parenting since being of South Asian descent since the high expectations, ambitions were played out in our house as well... however neither me or my brother were ever called "garbage". Definitely, sleepovers, hanging out at the mall weren't too big with my parents. But for her to label the "shaming" as an Asian thing really annoys me.
However, with regards to my children, I would motivate them, and challenge them to be their very best. And yes, the Asian part of me has started Math, Science and English but only as a means of discovery, learning and joy. At the end of the day, children need to be loved. And yes, I will celebrate every achievement... big or small. Because children are not prize horses, they are beautiful human beings who teach us more than we can ever fathom.
Hugs and kisses,
Shabina
OK, first? If this is a mediocre blog, then I don't think there's a word for what mine is.
I completely agree. Love - without condition or prerequisite or potential loss thereof - is paramount when raising a child. A loved child, regardless of the number of blue ribbons, is a happy child.
The interesting thing to me about this entire discussion is the unwillingness to even consider the merit of some of Chua's ways. Yours is the first piece that I've read that actually acknowledges that there may actually be some validity to some of her views. Thank you for that.
As to "love". The definition of love is a personal one. Each person, each child, feels love differently. I never got the impression that Chua was withholding love, I got the impression that she was withholding respect.
Acceptable parenting styles change every decade or so and since this article has generated so much controversy and so much discussion I have to think that at this point in time, the parenting pendulum is on the move again. I can only hope that instead of a blanket condemnation of Chua and so-called Tiger Moms, people will consider both sides of the parenting coin.
I dated a guy whose parents were like this. Made it hard for us to have a good relationship because our relationship was nowhere near the top of his priority list, and that sucked. I saw his dad maybe 3 years later, with my ex in the car next to me, and his dad had no memory that I existed... probably because I wasn't best.
OH PITY ME!
Anyway, it's not restricted to a specific culture, this idea of needing to be best at everything. And it usually doesn't end well even for those who do go to Harvard (or his case Princeton).
I cannot believe a person could call their own innocent child anything so derogatory. Love is all a child needs, unconditional. Encourage, don't insult. That's outrageous.
I am far more strict than my mother every was. She took a very hippy relaxed approach to parenting, and I sometimes wish I had been pushed more. Odd, I know, but I really wish she had followed through more. I do not however wish that she ever called me garbage.
My kids will know that they are loved, but they will know that you need to try hard, and not just give up because it isn't easy. There is something to be said for expecting a lot from your kids, but I agree, it can't come at the expense of making sure they know they are loved.
@Miss Britt, Nope. I know, and that? Is a WHOLE *other* issue I have with her point of view.
@Loukia, Thanks, yeah, what is it with not allowing sleepovers? I actually see myself doing the same thing, though. Because I am a total control freak, and cannot stand the thought of my children sleeping in anyone's house besides family.
@tricia booker, LOL... exactly.
@cagey, I totally got it. Did you make up the "Cobra" dad thing?
@Avitable, Thanks. I'm glad you agree even though you don't have kids so obviously your opinion means nothing. Heh.
@Jina, Beautiful! Thank you for sharing.
@Angie [A Whole Lot of Nothing], Agreed. Also, how disturbing is it that Chinese mothers are aiming for Harvard and pageant moms are aiming for... a dethroning due to a Playboy shoot?
@Sybil Law, That book resonated with me, a lot. A LOT.
@Nanna, I think it's almost seen as a sort of sacrifice in the part of the mother, actually. They, too, want to express their love unconditionally, but I think they believe that this will somehow hold their child back. I think. I don't know.
@Megan, You know what I just LOVE? How you can take 1100 words of mine and turn them into two sentences and have the same impact.
@Jina, Yes. Exactly.
@Windy, "We protect our children even from our vanity." Wow. That was awesome.
@Little Miss Sunshine State, Agreed.
@Neeroc, Ditto.
@B.E. Earl,
Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.
For the record, though, I'm not raising anyone's disenchanted Asian youth.
@Faiqa, You are very kind, thank you.
@F.emme, Me, too. Also, I thought she was being a total racist or... at the very least, slightly xenophobic.
@Faiqa, well, obviously. :)
@Jina, I've always loved this. Beautiful.
@Shabina, Exactly.
@SciFi Dad, This is how I see it, too.
@Nyt, This is an excellent point (about respect) and one I had not considered. I think, though, that love and respect are on par with me because they were on par with my family. The way that love was shown was through respect, you know?
People should consider both sides, you're right. I just don't feel that Chua is representative because of this specific issue of using rejection and shame to motivate. Like I said, as a family, we value much of what she does, but our methods are slightly different. That nuance, to me, is very important.
Also, I'm a little concerned about this dialogue taking place within the context of America's role in the new emerging global economy. In other words, I don't think this is a topic about parenting alone. I think it's occurring within a much broader conversation about how Americans can be economically and intellectually competitive in a changing global environment. Simply stated, it bothers me that her view seems to equate the success of our potential competitors with her parenting techniques.
@Poppy, I don't think it's restricted to a specific culture, either, that was another element of the article that I found a little upsetting.
@Faiqa, Yes, I made up the Cobra Daddy thing. Manoj loves to tell all of his "finding cobras in the house" stories, which fascinates the kids. I didn't have to reach too far for that moniker.
I debated using "Peacock Daddy", since it is the national bird, but realized that could be twisted in really weird ways. Too many of us bloggers are just 12 year olds at heart.