Wednesday
Jan132010
Though I Don't Call It the War of Northern Aggression...
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 at 12:07AM
Back when I took History of the Old South, somebody brought up the topic of whether Florida is really part of “The South.”
I never knew this was a topic for debate until that moment. I grew up in the Florida, and, yes, ma’am, why I do consider myself a Southerner.
I mean, sort of. Minus the legacy of racial tension. Hey, my people were chilling out and drinking lassis when all that nonsense was going down.
Anyway, this past weekend, we went to Savannah for my birthday and as I munched on some of the best fried green tomatoes a human being has ever eaten, I started thinking about that question, “Is Florida really the South?”
I suppose you could define it in terms of the Civil War. Confederate state? Check.
Or whether people have an accent. Most people who grew up here say “Y’all,” “Yes, Ma’am" and "No, sir,” and have a tendency to drop the last letters of their words, as in “goin’ " or “surfin’." Check.
South of the Mason-Dixon line... check.
Racism or racial tension. Ummm. I’m going to go with “check” on that one, too. Trust me.
Hospitality? Hello, we have Disney. So, check.
Although, I think there’s a viable argument to be had in the idea that Disney has actually made Central Florida decidedly less southern with the passing of time.
Sweet tea. Check.
Don’t get me wrong, if there was a big “Who’s the most Southern?” contest between, say, Alabama, Mississippi and Florida, Florida would definitely go running from the stage faster than Kanye on a day he forgot to take his meds, but I stand by the fact that I am a southerner.
Sort of. Sigh.
Is Florida southern? How do you define “The South”, anyway? And what the hell is rule for capitalizing the word south?
I never knew this was a topic for debate until that moment. I grew up in the Florida, and, yes, ma’am, why I do consider myself a Southerner.
I mean, sort of. Minus the legacy of racial tension. Hey, my people were chilling out and drinking lassis when all that nonsense was going down.
Anyway, this past weekend, we went to Savannah for my birthday and as I munched on some of the best fried green tomatoes a human being has ever eaten, I started thinking about that question, “Is Florida really the South?”
I suppose you could define it in terms of the Civil War. Confederate state? Check.
Or whether people have an accent. Most people who grew up here say “Y’all,” “Yes, Ma’am" and "No, sir,” and have a tendency to drop the last letters of their words, as in “goin’ " or “surfin’." Check.
South of the Mason-Dixon line... check.
Racism or racial tension. Ummm. I’m going to go with “check” on that one, too. Trust me.
Hospitality? Hello, we have Disney. So, check.
Although, I think there’s a viable argument to be had in the idea that Disney has actually made Central Florida decidedly less southern with the passing of time.
Sweet tea. Check.
Don’t get me wrong, if there was a big “Who’s the most Southern?” contest between, say, Alabama, Mississippi and Florida, Florida would definitely go running from the stage faster than Kanye on a day he forgot to take his meds, but I stand by the fact that I am a southerner.
Sort of. Sigh.
Is Florida southern? How do you define “The South”, anyway? And what the hell is rule for capitalizing the word south?
Reader Comments (32)
I think any state where you can get pre-made sweet tea in most restaurants should be considered southern. It seems like a universal symbol of southern goodness.
I have two requirements for considering any place as Southern.
1 - Do they serve biscuits and sausage gravy every day, or just on the weekends?
2 - How good is the Southern-fried steak?
That's all I got. That's all I need. That's all I want.
Of course, I meant "Chicken-fried steak" for number two. I must be slipping or something.
I think there are parts of Northern Florida that are much more part of the Deep South than we are here in Central Florida. Four years in Tallahassee and I was drinking sweet tea and saying "ya'll", and my parents are from New Jersey and Pennsylvania.
Grits! Do you eat grits?
I think we have a similar situation in Texas.
There's a tendency among those of us who are not in the south to combine "southern" with "redneck inbred hillbilly".
I think that Florida is "southern" in the true definition, but not in the generalized common usage.
@Lisa, So, you're telling me, then, that certain restaurants DO NOT serve pre-made sweet tea?! I think you just blew my mind.
@B.E. Earl, Chicken fried steak... mmm.
@Cara Pope, Oh, yeah, Tallahassee, over and up are practically Georgia. Then again, Central Florida does have Lake Wales, Bartow and Lakeland which I think could give those places a run for their money.
@Ocean Girl, Ohhh, yes. Love grits. With real butter. And syrup if I'm feeling cavalier.
@Ren, Well, as I recall, the governor of TX bailed when they seceded from the Union... Houston, right? And given that Southerners never let anything go, that's probably a strike. :)
@SciFi Dad, I don't know, we've got our share of rednecks around here.
When I was living in the north, I never considered Florida part of The South.
And then I moved here.
And hooooo boy, yes. True Floridians certainly aren't Yankees.
I think what makes Florida so unique though is just how many of us damn northerners call it home, now, too.
@Miss Britt, You dilute our purity, dammit. Ten years from now, we'll al be saying crazy stuff like, "Pop" and... you know, other weird Northern stuff. On the other hand, I claim "hooo boy" for the South.
@Faiqa, Oh, yeah, I interviewed at a few schools in Lake County when we first moved back from Texas... I ran right back to Longwood screaming.
I'm with Britt on this one. WhenI lived in New Jersey, I thought Florida was just a warm and distant extension of New Jersey. (We say y'all, and drop the last letters off of words, too) Now that I live here, in a vacation destination (which used to be pig farm country), I realize that Florida is a po-dunk little Southern state full of Waffle Houses and no 24-hour anythings... Oh how I miss sitting at the diner at two am sucking down coffee and cigarettes. But, even with all the low temps lately, I wouldn't move back to New Jersey if you paid me.
You must cut the state in about half, just a little north of Lake Okeechobee. Above that, southern. Below that, it's a mixture of the Northeast, the Caribbean, Cuba and South America. Ain't nothing southern about it us down here. In fact, we often joke that the area code for Palm Beach County (561) means it's just an extension of Long Island (area code 516). Not that there isn't the stray redneck here and there or that we don't drink sweet tea, eat grits and say y'all, but it's all for show.
Capitalize the South when referring to the region, lowercase when referring to the direction. I have not idea what to do with "southern."
I have only Bern to Tallahassee -- a few hours from my dad's hometown in Georgia -- so I'm not really sure. I suppose it's like Virginia. The northern part of Virginia is more like a DC suburb than being in the South. Some have said the line is Richmond.
And yes, only in the South can you get sweet tea in restaurants.
Geographically speaking, Florida is part of the south.
Culturally speaking, the southern culture has primarily been diluted in population centers by the northern culture. If you look at every major Floridian urban center you will find more northern traditions and institutions than you do southern, with the probable exception of Miami where you'll find more of a Latin influence.
Lived in FL for a year. Nowhere else I have lived have I found people who keep pigs, ostridges, alligators and panthers in their back yards as pets, or arrive at a BBQ on a swamp buggy. It is the south.
@Allyson, Yeah, but Waffle House has some great eggs. Just sayin'.
@Finn, Actually, I read that in a history book once, the thing about cutting the state in half...
It's so hard for me to gauge if Florida is or is not in The South because I grew up in a place where none of this division even exists. In California, we know nothing of this North vs. South thing - to us "the South" means San Diego. ;)
Being that this is my first experience ever in The South, I will have to say that I give Florida the big thumbs up but reserve the right to change mah mind. Y'know, cause I'm a lady of the South now that that is what we do.
*fans self*
@Kailyn, I love Virginia... for that reason. It's like the South, but not. Like Florida, but with seasons. Do they have mosquitoes? Because if they don't, I think I might move..
@NYCWD, Hmmm. Agreed.
I did not grow up in a "population center" by which I assume you mean Jax, Miami... or, umm... that's all I can think of. I did notice, though, as I got older that a lot of people from the North were moving into my hometown. Specifically from New York and Jersey.
@MidLifeMama, I once had a friend who had a pet water buffalo. True story.
@Hilly, Well, I declare.
@Faiqa, They do have mosquitos. But they also have Waffle House. Pecan pancakes and cheese grits...
Everyone's already answered! I have nothing original! WAH!
From a Northerner's perspective, Florida is kind of part of the South. While geographically it fits into the region, it doesn't have the same cultural feel as, say, Arkansas or Mississippi. Plus there's Disney, which is like a seriously multicultural little country unto itself.
From the AP Stylebook: "South: As defined by the U.S. Census Bureau, the 16-state region is broken into three divisions." So, anytime you're referring to the region, the "S" should be capitalized.
I think it depends largely on what area of Florida you're from. I spent two long vacations in Deerfield Beach and exploring the rest of the Fort Lauderdale area and the Keys. I'm told the Ft. Lauderdale area is mostly people from New England who moved down to get the hell away from the vicious cold. My dad's friend Shaun (Shawn? Sean?) lived in Deerfield for years after moving from NYC. He now lives in St. Augustine.
I honestly don't see Florida as Southern. I see it as NOT COLD and my FUTURE HOME. When I think of the South, I think of Georgia, not Florida. But I guess Florida is sorta Southern, since it is, well, South. :D